FlaDotNet Code Camp 2006
Wow, did [the sessions I attended] blow. What a waste of a Saturday.
I’m looking to get a bit more involved in the local .NET community now that I’m home. Meet some local developers, talk code, learn a few things, get some new coding perspectives after being isolated for a while, perhaps find a developer or two to fill some vacant slots we have open. You get the idea. So, attending the .NET Code Camp 2006 was my first attempt. The IP address access of the website should have warned me. The ugly design of the site itself should have warned me. The presentation scremed “unprofessional” but I didn’t listen.
My issues?
- The agenda changed right up to the last minute (as the website warned) so that showing up at 0930 to attend a specific session I was interested in left me sitting around for an hour because I could give a crap about skinning DotNetNuke. (Actually, I did sit in on that class.)
- The sessions [which I attended] left a lot to be desired. The speakers [at the sessions I attended] were horrible. They rambled, they were not engaging, they seemed unprepared and didn’t seem to actually focus on the topic of the session.
- High-draw sessions [which I attended] didn’t have enough seating leaving you standing and trying to take notes for an hour.
For example, the “Building Custom ASP.NET Server Controls” started out with 15 minutes of the presenter discussing Erik Sink’s weblog post on Us-Ware and Them-Ware. He defined the terms and then discussed them. What that had to do with building a custom server control I do not know. All I know is that you only have 50 minutes here bub, get to work. He then showed us the VB.NET code for the custom server control… but in the IDE that was shrunk down to 640 x 480 for the projector/screen so that we could see all of 3 lines of code at a time. After reviewing said code for a solid 15 seconds he then spent the next 30 minutes trying to get a local website set up, the DLL references set and the custom drop down list he wrote to display in a .NET page. All-in-all not a well planned or executed presentation. Take-aways from the session? Proper planning and preparation prevents piss poor performance. But the presenter probably didn’t mean for that message to be primary.
I had a secondary mission of going to a developer gathering at a local tech University (DeVry)… finding some leads on local developers who need jobs. I have two openings available and would like to fill them some time this century. But there was no job board. No place to stick your business card if you’re an employer looking for developers. Nothing. I’m not the type to walk around the snack room asking random people “need a job?”, “hey bub, need a job?” — makes me feel like a street hooker.
So, I ditched a bit early since I didn’t want to stick around for the later sessions. I’m going to try and hit the Feb 16 GCUG meeting to see if that group is any better.
February 7th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
The website is always a clear indicator of the professionalism of any organization. Would you ever buy from a company that has a crappy website, I doubt it. June of 2004 I went to Singapore to train a bunch of engineers on Active Directory, Group Policy, and how to program tools to access the functionality of both. I was prepared (I knew what needed to be taught) but deviated from my presentation when I noticed that the class was focusing on specific elements. If a speaker or trainer cannot take cues from his audience, he shouldn’t be up there speaking.
Sorry about your miserable Saturday.
February 7th, 2006 at 3:10 pm
Almost forgot … is CodeCamp anything like BandCamp?
February 7th, 2006 at 6:05 pm
Meaning is it a bunch of geeks lamely attempting social interaction? Yes. =D
February 7th, 2006 at 6:35 pm
There are always two sides to every story. From reading the above Blog entry you have read the story of one disgruntled “Code Camp� attendee, now I would like to tell the story of a presenter, user group leader, and professional developer.
Expectations:
Showing up late and attending a handful of presentation is not participating in the community. Code Camps are organized by user groups for the benefit of the development community. The organizers have very limited budgets and donate many hours of their free time. Likewise, the speakers are not paid professional speakers. We are all volunteers that just like technology and are passionate about the topics we speak about.
Why Speak:
We choose to speak for several reasons. Probably the strongest reason is to share our knowledge and to learn. Many of us have only spoken in front of groups a few times before and nerves do play a role in our presentation. Despite our fears we push on and enjoy the experience of helping others and also learning where we need to improve ourselves. Finally, many of travel from all over Florida to attend such events to speak, network, etc.
Agenda:
Despite his statement of wanting to get more involved with the community the author of this Blog attended the South Florida Code camp with a “me first� attitude and an agenda. While a job board is a good suggestion plenty of people networked by passing out business cards and talking. There were many great connections made; I witnessed several. If the author truly desired to participate in the community then why didn’t he volunteer to speak? I suspect the answer is because it is easier to hide behind a keyboard and critique those that do instead of stepping up.
Lessons Learned:
I was the speaker mentioned in this Blog post whose presentation was on ASP.NET Server Controls. I am not a professional speaker and have only spoken twice before. I learned several things from this experience that I feel will only make me better in the future. For example, a topic should be very clearly defined. I needed to be more focused on the technical aspects of server control development. Answering questions can be difficult b/c sometimes the rest of the group can become lost. One technique I noticed some other people using is to repeat the question in case others did not hear it. In the future I will have plenty of examples and make sure the screen is more readable.
February 7th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
Dennis,
Thanks for taking the time to comment. The more the merrier.
> Showing up late and attending a handful of presentation is not participating in the community.
You’re right. That’s attending a Code Camp which was a waste of time. Shame on me for skipping the first session. Double shame on me for leaving after taking nothing away from three other sessions.
As for particpation, I’m an active member in many virtual communities (experts-exchange, forums.asp.net, aspadvice, MSDN newsgroups) and now that I’ve relocated to the States (so that I can actually attend meetings) I’ll be getting active in the local community. Be sure to say hello if we bump into each other.
> the author of this Blog attended the South Florida Code camp with a “me first� attitude and an agenda.
Shouldn’t I have an agenda? “Hey, I want to learn new things and meet some developers.” I didn’t learn about the things I wanted to but I did sneak some networking in, so it’s not like I sat in a corner and sucked my thumb. As for a job board, when I didn’t find once I asked around got in touch with Dave Noderer about posting positions on fladotnet.com — that’s the kind of networking you had in mind right?
> If the author truly desired to participate in the community then why didn’t he volunteer to speak? I suspect the answer is because it is easier to hide behind a keyboard and critique those that do instead of stepping up.
I’m not the hiding type — brutally honest is closer. FYI, I only heard about code camp a week ago. I haven’t really been in the loop lately. Really though, I would never be a presenter. I’m a horrible speaker for the same reasons that I’m a horrible teacher: I don’t have the patience to answer questions. I’m much better in smaller round-table discussions. However, I expect those who are doing a job to do it well. When you present yourself to a group as the President of the Jacksonville .NET Users Group and an experienced developer with XX years of experience (kinda like you did at the start of your comment “a presenter, user group leader, and professional developer”) I expected a more professional presentation. If you had said, “I’m a new presenter and a bit nervous, so bear with me, I’ll do the best I can.” I probably would have gone easier on the critique, but, if you say you’re an ace I’ll expect you to perform like one. When you speak in public, be it at a CodeCamp, on a blog or on a street corner, you open yourself for critique… even if it’s from behind a keyboard.
I stand by my critique of your presentation. It started off rambling (which turned a few people off as they ducked out of the room) and then got worse as you struggled to get the assembly containing your custom server control to work in a web project (which turned a few more off as they ducked out of the room). Before you had finished with the coding aspect of the presentation, you let a single question of “can I see how the control looks in a web page?” derail your entire presentation. The question wasn’t an out-of-left-field kind of inquiry.
I’m a common sense kind of guy. I expected a typical presentation: “Here’s what we’re building, here’s how we build it, here’s what the final product looks like.” After an explanation of what a custom server control is and after seeing code, to see the final product in use on a web page. Your not having a website configured and a page set up to use your server control threw me. Since you like to reference blogs, take a note from Rick Strahl’s Web Log — he’s prepping and reviewing his examples in January for ASP Connections in April, not setting it up during the presentation. Sure, CodeCamp isn’t Connections but the concept is the same.
I do appreciate your taking the time to present, just like I appreciate all the effort people went through to set it up. I made sure to tell people before I left about some of the same limitations I bitched about here. Hopefully they’ll take them into consideration and the next one will be better. If it’s not, I’ll never attend an event put on by these organizers again.
February 7th, 2006 at 8:26 pm
Havagan,
I actually appreciated you reply more than your original post. I find absolutely no fault in wanting to learn new things and networking with David is exactly what I had in mind. I commend you for you honesty and despite appreciate it. You mention that you would never speak and give your reasons. However, not all code camp presentation have to be taught. You could have volunteered to lead a round table discussion or a “Birds of a Feather” discussion. In either case you wouldn’t have to be a speaker.
In my defense I simply stated who I was and never said I was a professional speaker. I realize the more I step out into the public the more open to critique I become. However, in my replies on your blog I am not just replying on my behalf but also for the community. In my last post I did not deny that I needed to learn from the experience and approve many asspects of my presentation. However, I stand by my statements. You continue to compare code camp and our speakers to professional speakers and professional events. Code Camp is a grass roots movement by local development communities. It is about giving developers the chance to step up, learn and grow.
In my case I don’t feel I was thrown by the demonstration question. I created a web project like a developer would do and added the control to the page. I also answered several other questions including what the attributes do and how the effect the properties in the properties window. You are obviously a skilled developer and unfortunately I focused too much on the beginners. I made some mistakes and learned from them. I don’t have any excuses. I don’t think my presentation was great and I don’t think it was horrible. I know some people learned from it and some people didn’t. I know I need to improve. I know this from your comments and from my own evaluation sheets I handed out.
Dennis
February 7th, 2006 at 8:27 pm
Paul,
Just to offer up a juxtaposition on how other folks viewed the codecamp, here are a few other links. Not sure if it will let URLs through, but here ya go.
http://xmlpitstop.com/cs/blogs/daves_xml_and_dotnet_grokspot/archive/2006/02/06/134.aspx
http://geekswithblogs.net/shervin/archive/2006/02/05/68222.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/quenth/archive/2006/02/06/525699.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/rfustino/archive/2006/02/06/526308.aspx
February 7th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Hey Bub,
I think you’ve got to take a deep breath and consider a few things.
1. You often get what you pay for. It’s free, and, well…
2. There is some inconsistency in being so publicly critical of speakers and yet not having the balls to lay it on the line yourself.
3. CodeCamp is explicit and unequivocal about giving local folks a chance to speak. I’d suggest it was your expectations and not Code Camp itself that need adjusting.
4. If you have ways that you think you can improve Code Camp or your local dev community events in general, the onus is on you to do it. Until you give of your time and energy, you really lack credibility in criticizing those that do.
5. Consider just getting in touch with presenters personally in the future to offer your criticism. As a rule, we really and truly appreciate constructive criticism, much more than those who rate us A++ without a moment’s thought.
As it stands, all you’ve managed to do is make an ass of yourself, embitter those whom you purport to seek to get involved with, and demonstrate that you probably don’t know much about what community is about. This is not exactly the smartest strategy to “get a bit more involved in the local .NET community.” If you don’t care, you might consider just sticking to the virtual communities.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:24 pm
Joe,
Thanks for the links — I’ve already read a few of those. I know that the majority of people really enjoyed the event, I on the other hand did not. Everyone loved the community aspect of the event, while I went in with a “learn new things” mindset. That might best be left for the bigger conferences and professional training sessions.
I’m interested in Quent Herschelman’s SIG for MCAD and I’ve already signed up on FlaDotNet to receive notice of meetings and I’ll be at the next Boca GCUG event.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:29 pm
This was my third Code Camp and I drove in from Jacksonville to speak. Of all the Code Camps I’ve been to, this was far by the best and I coudln’t disagree with Havagan more. I thought this was a pretty blanket statement to make that the speakers were horrible. Granted, I didn’t see that many sessions this time since I was doing 4 myself but I have seen many of the speakers that spoke there and they’re top notch. It could be that you just had an off day for a speaker or two but that’s what eval forms are form. They help speakers like myself who don’t do this professionally grow and find what we need to work on.
– Brian Knight
February 7th, 2006 at 9:35 pm
Ambrose,
I can be critical — and will be as part of any discussion. You can come here and criticize my post. You can write an article and I can criticize it. Dennis can present and you can criticize it. Am I supposed to say “wow, that rocked” when it didn’t? And suddenly, we’re having a discussion…
As I noted in my reply to Joe, I understand that my expectations may have differed from other attendees.
I plan on contributing to the local dev community. Give me a break, I just got the hell out of Guantanamo six weeks ago.
How have I made an ass of myself? Because I thought the presentations I went to were lacking? I criticized Dennis, he criticized me. I agree he has valid points, he agrees he can improve. I’m happy with that and think the end result has been positive.
February 7th, 2006 at 9:46 pm
Paul,
I respect your right to say you don’t like the event.
But to say things that generalize like:
THE SPEAKERS WERE HORRIBLE
THE SESSIONS LEFT ALOT TO BE DESIRED
Well, you just insulted at least 40 people/60 sessions/numerous volunteers. Your blog goes further than you think. And I’d say based on the respondees here that ‘havagan’ is getting well known around the SFL community right now. Might want to at least recontext that area and say “the sessions I went to sucked” and the “speakers I listened to sucked” instead of lumping all 60+ sessions/30 speakers into one bucket.
I’m proud of my national level speakers like Brian. I’m proud of my newbie speakers like Dennis. I’m proud of all my speakers at this codecamp cause it took cojones to do it, and lots of time and excitement for them to step up for this.
February 7th, 2006 at 10:14 pm
Paul,
I think it is somewhat disingenuous to couch this blog as simple criticism.
Joe’s last comment nailed it. You were insulting and careless. Constructive criticism and candor are always welcome, but public dissing that serves no purpose but to blow off steam is not that.
On the whole, I think you’ll find people will welcome constructive criticism if you simply give it in a considerate manner, and more often than not, it will be best received in a one-on-one dialogue, as this reduces the ego factor.
In any case, I’m sure the good folks in South Florida will happily give you a break if you’ll try to show a little more good will in the future, as you seem to now be doing.
February 7th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
Joe,
I would have thought that the fact that I could only comment on the speakers of the sessions I attended was understood. Just as positive generalities about the Code Camp like “everyone left all events with a smile on thier face” and “the content was awesome” are understood not to mean absolutely everyone and not absolutely all content. The original post has been edited to explicitly state that caveat.
Brian’s sessions may have been outstanding. Your sessions may have been oustanding. The volunteers I interacted with during registration and throughout the event were very helpful and were proactive in providing help in any manner they could. But the sessions I attended provided me with no new or useful knowledge. Since that was my primary goal in attending, and that goal was not met, my going was not productive.
Ambrose,
Is my phraseology a problem? This is my personal blog and is often used for blowing off steam or (rarely) for overflowing enthusiasm. It will often be written tongue-in-cheek and always in language that is a part of my personality — sarcastic and blunt. If someone takes offense I will do my best to explain that no offense was meant. After that if you still feel that I’m an ass, that is your right.
February 8th, 2006 at 7:55 am
Relating to your response to Ambrose that this is your ‘personal’ blog.
I appreciate you voicing the concerns over the sessions you attended. But personal blog hung on the web is still a public forum. And when you feed your posts to technorati.com and categorize them as:
Technorati Tags: Code Camp, CodeCamp, FlaDotNet, ASP.NET, .NET
It sure looks like you’re trying to rip up the CodeCamps and FlaDotNet in a public forum. And then syndicate it out using an automatic subscription feed. Then explicitly tag it so it directly reflects on the local developer community down here. Good job.
Hang your dirty laundry in the window, its public for the world to see. If you want it private, perhaps it might be better to keep it private. I think alot of blogs out there have private areas that require a user id and password for folks to read? Of course, if you were trying to hang a public comment and voice your opinions to the world and technorati and the search engines, then you did the right thing.
February 8th, 2006 at 8:13 am
Joe,
Personal meaning, in my control to do with as I please, not personal for my reading only. Any opinion voiced here is meant for public consumption and can be accepted or discarded just like any other opinion.
I do have issues with [the sessions I attended] at CodeCamp but I do not have issues with FlaDotNet (indeed Dave Noderer was very friendly and very helpful). I was ripping on [the sessions I attended] at CodeCamp. I hope that through the comments here I have clarified that my opinions were not about the developer community in general. However, this is starting to to feel like some overly defensive parents who have just heard someone say something negative about their kid in little league.
February 8th, 2006 at 10:44 am
Havagan,
I totally understand your right to your opinion, but you should have mentioned how much you paid for this event. By the way a Full refund is available.
Honestly, codecamps might not be the right venue for you. You’re looking for a certain level of perfection that most CodeCamps just don’t have. Note the “by the community for the community” catch lines. Perhaps I might suggest DevConnections or VSLive where you are guaranteed a certain level of what you are looking for?
But I can promise you a few things:
SPEAKER LEVEL
We will continue to have “newbie presenters”. CodeCamp isn’t VSLive, although there were a fair number of VSLive / TechEd / DevConnections presenters at the camp. The rules for a codecamp are reversed, and newbie are preferred over established ones. Gives us a chance to build the next gen speakers for the facetime community. Some of your feedback will be passed over to them. In fact, I think your post will be used as a potential warning on what the aftermath could be to a speaker who doesn’t level set at the beginning.
AGENDA CHANGES
Let’s establish a few basics here. Volunteer, unpaid speakers, many from out of town. Yes, the agenda will continue to change up until the last minute. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. Heck, I appreciate each and every speaker who showed up, whether they stank or not, whether they were an MVP or not.
IP ADDRESS IN WEBSITE
Big deal – requirement to get the site hosted for free. I’ll take it.
RECRUITING – Try making some of the social functions around the codecamp, or even staying past lunch – its much easier to recruit.
THE SPEAKERS WERE HORRIBLE – Pretty broad statement considering I think you only attended two sessions.
HIGH DRAW SESSIONS LEFT YOU STANDING – Guess those speakers weren’t so horrible. This was a facilities limitation. Facilites were -generously- donated by Devry. I’m not sure how to get bigger rooms without charging a fee. And that won’t happy. Sometimes we just have to deal with certain things, and that’s one of them at CodeCamp.
For those dissatisfied, full refunds of registration fees are available. Guess we’ll only have 369 show up next year.
February 8th, 2006 at 10:47 am
Havagan,
We are not parents, but a community of peers that look after and help one another! If you think you really want to join the community then you should change your tone. When you attack one with unconstructive criticism you attack us all! We all are the community.
February 8th, 2006 at 11:41 am
Shervin,
I’ve caveated my broad statements and gone into how my expectations may not have been in sync with the purpose of the code camp. I certainly understand now that Code Camp is not to be considered a professional event. So now anyone who happens to find this blog will understand that right off the bat.
I definitely got what I paid for.
February 8th, 2006 at 11:58 am
Havagan,
I have been involved in South Florida Developer Community for a long Time. I know a lot of professionals in this community, many were at the code camp, all very happy and appreciative of our efforts.
I attend Gold Coast and Florida .NET meetings regularly, hope to see you at those events.
Shervin Shakibi
MSDN Regional Director
February 8th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
Reality aside, whether a presentation costs or is free, speakers need to keep within their scope of knowledge and talk on a subject that has appeal to the majority as opposed to the minority. I’m not trying to defend Paul, quite the contrary, I feel his blanket statements were a little “blanket”, but when it ultimately comes down to it, he has a point. Why go to something when you expect a level of professionalism and get nothing of it.
I went to VMworld 2004, there were numerous breakout sessions, many of the speakers were well worth the time and crowd. There were a few sessions where the speaker read verbatim from his slides–just give me a copy of the slides and I’ll be on my way. Value of the presentation is important. A slide that shows just what the audience needs, the presenter talks to it, is far superior than 100 slides with too much information that no one can reference too and ask questions of.
To each his own.
February 8th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
Shervin,
I’ll be at the February 16th CGUG event — we can arm wrestle there.
February 8th, 2006 at 5:32 pm
I think some great points have been raised on all sides. I must commend Paul for posting all comments on his blog and allowing this honest discussion to occur.
I have taken away many things from this discussion. But basically when presenting be very focused. Don’t try and cover too broad a topic. Be specific and be prepared. While it is true non of us are professional speakers, code camps are a great opportunity for us to learn and grow and we should do so. I will be presenter at my next code camp.
My hope is from the replies Paul has learned something too. Our community is close and we do help one and other. We don’t appreciate blanket statements b/c they don’t recognize all those that did well and they don’t help improve those that did poorly.
To me code camp is about stetching ones ability. I would much rather be challenged to reach the level of professionalism of a Brian Knight (MVP), or Ambrose Little(MVP). Then be seen as the big fish myself. Code Camps have given a new generation of presenters such as Shaun, GeekGurl, myself, ect. a chance to grow. We are going to have some bumps along the way.
February 9th, 2006 at 10:56 am
I enjoy a good argument and would never censor valid comments. Only spam is deleted. The more comments the merrier and I don’t ask that anyone agree with me. All I want is a group hug at the end.
February 16th, 2006 at 7:52 am
[...] Crap. I kept saying I would be at the next GCUG meeting but I won’t be able to make it tonight. Oh well, it saves me a 65 mile drive up there. [...]